General Category > Off Topic Stuff -- Not specifically related to Welwyn Hatfield

Jon Venables (Jamie Bulger's killer) back in prison..

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Kay:
disgruntled "Sadly some of the more vitriolic comments on subjects like this originate from moderators of this forum which beggars the question on judgement does it not?"

You mean ME - I was a Moderator - but for reasons, which are no ones business, I am no longer. Regardless of what you think about my opinions, I am entitled to them - as you are.

RE: "I do accept that there is a case to be made that some are just born without a sense of morality or empathy. But surely a tiny minority? Therefore the nuture vs nature aregument kicks in. How could you kill a child as a result of the lack of nurture?"

How does the 'nature/nurture' debate 'kick in'? Lost me there...

Nurture:  "raising someone to be an accepted member of the community;".

Nature:  Genetic.

It would be quite easy for someone who has not been nurtured to turn into a killer.  If they have not been nurtured and valued, what else would be left for them?  Pchizophrneia starts in childhood also (Double bind) 'You're damned if you do and damned if you don't'.

You may find these interesting:

BOWLBY - Original researcher on the Nature/Nurture debate (attachment theory and bonding in childhood):

http://psychology.about.com/od/loveandattraction/a/attachment01.htm

Rutter - Who disagreed with Bowlby. One of his works 'Maternal Deprivation Reassessed'.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/histmed/audio/neuroscience/rutter


tt4n - Kay

jonmorris:
@Kay, I was talking about if you were there when some vigilante decided to dish out his or her punishment on Jon Venables, possibly killing him in some nasty, painful, fashion - just he had done.

But if you'd been somewhere where you saw two young children taking another child somewhere, would you have had any reason to suspect it was to murder him? It could be two older brothers finding a child that had walked off, or kids playing.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Kay:
jonmorris with regard to if I were somewhere where someone was 'dishing out punishment', I probably would stop them from taking the law into their own hands.

Let's face it, none of us know if Little James Bulger gave any indications of being with people he didn't want to be with.  Although from the reports at that time, I think (if I remember rightly), Little James DID give indications he was with people he didn't really want to be with. 

Me being me, I would probably have stopped them to ask if everything was OK - and particularly the child.

Yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing....

tt4n
Kay


--- Quote from: jonmorris on March 10, 2010, 06:17:11 PM ---@Kay, I was talking about if you were there when some vigilante decided to dish out his or her punishment on Jon Venables, possibly killing him in some nasty, painful, fashion - just he had done.

But if you'd been somewhere where you saw two young children taking another child somewhere, would you have had any reason to suspect it was to murder him? It could be two older brothers finding a child that had walked off, or kids playing.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

--- End quote ---

EAD:
I think this is an extremely emotive subject, I understand that that Jamie's mother feels that she has a right to be kept informed about what is happening to the murderers of her son, but I am not sure that she does.

A decision was made to release the offenders, which was not a popular move, but can a ten year old be imprisoned  for the rest of their life? We are all very different people to who we were at 10 years old. I know that they did a terrible terrible thing but as an adult they may be different given support.

I am worried that there will be innocent people caught up in the witch hunt surrounding his detention, can you imagine being a 27 year old looking vaguely like him arriving in a prison anywhere in the country ??

I think that if they name him he can never have a fair trial for whatever it is he has done.

It could be that by getting himself back in the system that he is proved to be a truely evil person who has proved that you can't ever rehabilitate every offender.

These are my thoughts and they disjointed, but if he had been recalled on licence and no one said anything would anyone have been any the wiser?? I expect that the authorities thought that it would get out so they went on the offensive and this has resulted in this situation.

GhostTown68:
Speaking generally here, I think these stories can bring out the worst in some people (not on this forum necessarily). In the past week I've been sent 5 texts claiming to have the details of Jon Venables new identity, invitations to facebook groups amounting to "lets find him and kill him", not to mention overhearing people in the street describing in detail what they would do to him.

Ive never got this. Someone you have never met, did something to someone else you have never met, and yet it compells you to actually remove that person from existence? People would actually kill this man for what he did to a child nearly 20 years ago?

I've no doubt for a second that most of this is simple posturing, 'look how outraged I am' nonsense - but we've already seen one poor bloke incorrectly labelled as Jon Venables now in hiding!

I was sickened at the time of Bulgers murder, I was sickened reading some of the more graphic details of it and I'm sickened to even think of it. But short of this happening to someone close to me I cannot comprehend even tracking this man down, let alone killing him.

Slightly more on topic though having read the details of Jamies final hours, the people who saw a child being kicked/covered in blood/crying for its mum and did nothing will have to live with that for the rest of their lives. Whilst its easy to judge in hindsight, whilst I cant imagine someone killing a complete stranger, I also can't imagine seeing an older child kick a TODDLER in the stomach and not intervening immediately.


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