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Author Topic: NHS polyclinics will damage patient care  (Read 12988 times)

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Hatfield Girl

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Re: Which GP Surgeries in Welwyn Hatfield may close?
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2008, 08:53:58 PM »
One of the reasons I stay in this miserable town is the relationship I have with my GP.  In this world where there are very few people you can trust, I trust her.  My GP has literally kept me alive though her care and support and I refuse to see anyone else.
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Kay

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Re: Which GP Surgeries in Welwyn Hatfield may close?
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2008, 08:56:41 PM »
Hatfieldgirl - I know what you mean.  I would HATE to have to see someone else every other week - I hate seeing a 'Locum' to talk to - let alone having to speak to someone different everytime I would go to a Surgery.  That is why Doctors Surgeries were created in the first place - to make patients feel 'safe' to talk to their GP.

Oh well....


tt4n
Kay


One of the reasons I stay in this miserable town is the relationship I have with my GP.  In this world where there are very few people you can trust, I trust her.  My GP has literally kept me alive though her care and support and I refuse to see anyone else.
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shapps

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Re: Which GP Surgeries in Welwyn Hatfield may close?
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2008, 11:50:47 PM »
As someone else has already commented on this thread, the threat to the GP Surgeries nationwide and within Welwyn Hatfield is very real.

The issue has arisen because the government has decided that larger, less local, so called polyclinics would be a good idea. In theory providing more services to the public. In reality just making GP access more remote and less personal.

As Hatfield Girl has pointed out, a relationship with a Doctor who actually knows you can be critical to getting the best possible healthcare. But the government has decided that this is all irrelevant to healthcare outcomes and in their supposed wisdom they're pushing ahead with these unpopular plans to create polyclinics across the country.

Now GP surgeries are feeling the pressure because they fear that local surgeries will be closed as a result and I'm receiving mountains of correspondence from concerned constituents everyday explaining just how much they value their relationship with their own local doctor.

The Welwyn Hatfield Review published a list which I hadn't at the time seen, but it turned out to be from the E&N Herts Primary Care Trust (PCT) website and it listed the GP surgeries that might be affected by polyclinics and included all 8 of our local GP surgeries -- hence the list which is as follows:



Meanwhile Labour's local man on the ground has desperately tried to rubbish the claims by saying that it will never happen here. He even persuaded his own party's high command to put out a ludicrous national press release. It claimed that I was trying to distance myself from concerns about the potential for GP surgery closures, simply because I hadn't at that time seen the PCTs list and said as much on this thread. What the  ???

So should we take Mike's reassurances at face value?

Hold on a minute... this turns out to be the same Labour Party which assured us we would get a super-hospital in Hatfield before the last election when the seat was held (by just 1196 votes) by a Labour MP who also happened to be a Health Minister. Can anyone remember what happened to our super-hospital?

Then, as if losing a £1/2bn super-hospital project in Hatfield wasn't enough they decided to go further and allow the major services at our QE2 Hospital to be axed -- including A&E, Maternity, Paediatrics and ALL surgery -- and guess what... they decided to put these acute services in the Labour marginal of Stevenage where Barbara Follett is hanging onto an impossibly slender majority in that Labour marginal (now does this all sound rather familiar)?

But why stop there....

Next the Labour Government has decided that Welwyn Hatfield has too many Post Offices close enough to us as a population to actually help foster a sense of community. But that's easily resolved by announcing, just the other week, that they'd have a consultation about shutting down three of the most popular ones. And we all know what they mean by 'consultation' from the hospital farce!

And now, quite unbelievably Labour's wannabe MP has been peddling the line that it's a good thing to rip the heart out of our communities by closing down Post Offices and the Welwyn Hatfield Labour Party have formally turned down an offer to join the campaign to try to convince his own sorry government to have a change of heart -- see www.welhatpostoffices.org.

So you'll forgive me Mike, but when you start telling us that the threat to our GP surgeries is all made up, perhaps you'll allow us a moment of complete disbelief and cynicism, just before we laugh or perhaps cry about the mess that your clapped out, useless government is making of Welwyn Hatfield and this country.

Grant.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 12:01:55 AM by shapps »
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MikeHobday

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Re: Which GP Surgeries in Welwyn Hatfield may close?
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2008, 06:57:50 AM »
The Welwyn Hatfield Review published a list which I hadn't at the time seen, but it turned out to be from the E&N Herts Primary Care Trust (PCT) website and it listed the GP surgeries that might be affected by polyclinics and included all 8 of our local GP surgeries

Actually Grant, the document you refer to does not say that any GP surgeries might close. That list came from the Conservative Party.

Which leaves my original question:
I wonder what the chances are of the Tories apologising for their alarmist language if no surgeries close?

Still, with the new facility set to open next Spring, I guess we'll find out soon.

As for Post Offices, the maths is pretty simple: the Labour Government is providing £150 million annual subsidy to reduce closures. The Conservative Party is refusing to promise to match that. Guess which Party will lead to more Post Offices closing?

Mike
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mythoughts

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Re: Which GP Surgeries in Welwyn Hatfield may close?
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2008, 09:45:18 AM »
Quote
Hold on a minute... this turns out to be the same Labour Party which assured us we would get a super-hospital in Hatfield before the last election when the seat was held (by just 1196 votes) by a Labour MP who also happened to be a Health Minister. Can anyone remember what happened to our super-hospital?

Then, as if losing a £1/2bn super-hospital project in Hatfield wasn't enough they decided to go further and allow the major services at our QE2 Hospital to be axed -- including A&E, Maternity, Paediatrics and ALL surgery -- and guess what... they decided to put these acute services in the Labour marginal of Stevenage where Barbara Follett is hanging onto an impossibly slender majority in that Labour marginal (now does this all sound rather familiar)?

But why stop there....

Next the Labour Government has decided that Welwyn Hatfield has too many Post Offices close enough to us as a population to actually help foster a sense of community. But that's easily resolved by announcing, just the other week, that they'd have a consultation about shutting down three of the most popular ones. And we all know what they mean by 'consultation' from the hospital farce!

And now, quite unbelievably Labour's wannabe MP has been peddling the line that it's a good thing to rip the heart out of our communities by closing down Post Offices and the Welwyn Hatfield Labour Party have formally turned down an offer to join the campaign to try to convince his own sorry government to have a change of heart -- see www.welhatpostoffices.org.


New Labour doesn't stop there, of course. As whilst they've been busy asset stripping Welwyn Hatfield, they also want to force another 40.000 people into the area. Ludricrous.

As for the key point of this thread, many GPs already feel under attack and that they face the threat of closure:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7492391.stm


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2248013/Polyclinics-will-damage-patient-care,-say-doctors.html

Quote
: 86 per cent of GPs do not think polyclinics are a good investment for the NHS.

:: one in five doctors feel polyclinics will adversely affect continuity of care with patients unable to build a relationship with one doctor.




Mike, as you're clearly in the know, and up to speed on everything New Labour, can you say where are all the extra GPs that will service these wallyclinics going to come from? Thin air?  Or, in the typical New Labour style, will those that do buy in do so because they've been offered irresistable packages to help prop up a failing Government?  Personally, rather than all this, I'd rather see free prescriptions so that people who are ill and need several medications don't have to make a choice on which drug they can afford!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 10:56:55 AM by mythoughts »
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shapps

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Re: NHS polyclinics will damage patient care
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2008, 07:13:01 PM »
All,

In case anyone is in any doubt about the very real threat to our existing GP Surgeries I am releasing a copy of the letter I have just received from all Welwyn Hatfield GPs.  From this you will clearly see that doctors fear that our existing network of 8 GP surgeries is indeed under threat.



Sunday 6th July 08
Dear Grant

We have met on several occasions before through the Local Medical Committee and I email you to update you on our latest position concerning the planned Darzi Centre on the QEII site. All the practices in Welhat continue to object to this imposition and have unanimously signed a mandate to this effect. On their behalf I have just written to the Secretary of State, Lord Darzi and the Strategic Health Authority.
 
I write on behalf of the GPs in the Welwyn and Hatfield Locality who have unanimously signed the mandate to ask that this issue be reconsidered and the directive overturned.

There have been really stringent financial restrictions in Hertfordshire for a number of years and the PCT are on record as saying that the building of two new Darzi Surgeries is not the way that they would wish to spend their money. They have said that they consider that there is no need for such centres in Hertfordshire but as they have been given this mandate by the government  as ‘a must do’ they see this as the most pragmatic way of meeting the incredibly short timetable that has been imposed.

For the reasons I have set out in my document attached, the QEII Hospital site is not an appropriate place for siting a new Darzi GP led Health Centre. It is less than 600yards from two major teaching practices with below average list sizes covering 38,000 patients. It is destabilising, costly, confusing for patients, duplicating resources and leading to further congestion at the site and the Darzi GP led Health Centre will indeed have to be in a portacabin for at least 18months.This is an affluent area with many wards in the top fifth of affluent wards in the country and practices with below average list sizes, low disease indexes but lots of ‘worried well’, large group practices with good QQF scores and at present good cohesion and cooperation between all practices who are attempting to achieve the best outcomes for patients. As this is a commuter belt area, the majority of practice here already offer extended access (although the DNA rate for such appointments is of great concern and so seemingly this is not greatly valued by patients.) Even if a Darzi GP led Health Centre is a total failure we are told that it will have to be paid for during a 5-year contract. The funds could be used for essential services such as facilitating locality based commissioning if they were not used for this.

I have been contacted by many individual patients and by groups. This week I was contacted by a member of the Local Pharmacy Committee who have similar concerns about the destabilisation of community pharmacy in the neighbourhood. They too are asking to work with us to object to this imposition. I know that West Herts have very similar major concerns about the siting of the Darzi GP led Health Centre on the Hemel Hempstead Hospital Site. Indeed I have yet to hear any individual speak in favour of this directive, although I appreciate that the PCT are trying to present and implement the government's directive to the best of their ability.

One of the other issues of concern is the lack of democracy. Stakeholders including GPs and patients were not consulted before a decision was made to place the Darzi Surgery on the QEII Hospital Site, which we were told was the only option that was available and that it was not negotiable. There was additionally several weeks of delay in telling us about the decision after it had been made. All that appears to have been  negotiable/ consulted upon, was what might be included in this Darzi surgery.  We have listened to Lord Darzi telling us all (eg BBC news 8th May http://news.bbc.co/1/hi/health/7390784.stm) that such GP led Health Centres would only be introduced where there was a need and that if we did not consider that this was what was occurring, then we could object though the County Council Scrutiny Committee. The Hertfordshire Scrutiny Committee was very sympathetic to the arguments against having a Darzi GP led Health Centres and have written to the Secretary of State raising their concerns.  However, as the Acting Chair of the Scrutiny Committee said, he did not see any point in referring it back formally to the Secretary of State because all that was doing was asking the Secretary of State to reconsider his own directive. Clearly this lack of ability to have true scrutiny has been of get concern in this locality and we would value your comment on this issue. 

The directive that Hertfordshire must have two new GP led surgeries has been successful in uniting health professionals and patients to object to the government’s health policies in a way that I have not previously seen in 26 years in general practice. This is an extremely clear example of where ‘one size does not fit all’.

I am therefore asking you, on behalf of the Practices in Welwyn Garden City and Hatfield, to write to the Secretary of State, concerning the inappropriateness of the plans for a Darzi Surgery on the QEII Hospital Site and adding your support to the other requests that the directive to have the new GP led surgery at the QEII site should be overturned Resources can then be better used to provide an increased service for patients. 

However I should make it clear that in the event that there is a failure to overturn this decision then the GPs in this locality are unanimous in their support for a GP bid to try to prevent further extension of privatisation of the NHS.

We will look forward to hearing from you concerning this matter.

Dr Frances Cranfield
Partner in practice in Welwyn Garden City and lead for Welwyn Hatfield GPs concerning these objections.
 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 05:57:43 PM by shapps »
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mythoughts

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Re: NHS polyclinics will damage patient care
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2008, 09:01:02 PM »
Goodnight Mike!
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MikeHobday

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Re: NHS polyclinics will damage patient care
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2008, 09:20:43 PM »
Leaving aside my inclination not to automatically believe one side in an industrial dispute, especially its campaigning messages, I am struck that local GPs think that the QEII "is in an affluent area."

I wonder how much of the rest of the letter is exaggerating to make a political point?

I note that the GPs intend to bid to provide the service in question, and wish them luck in that. I hope for their sake that that the bidding process does not require any demographic knowledge of the local area.

Mike
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mythoughts

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Re: NHS polyclinics will damage patient care
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2008, 09:36:17 PM »
Quote
I hope for their sake that that the bidding process does not require any demographic knowledge of the local area.

Where do you live Mike? And as for campaigning messages, can you remind us what you do for a living and what you campaign for?

Quote
One of the other issues of concern is the lack of democracy. Stakeholders including GPs and patients were not consulted before a decision was made to place the Darzi Surgery on the QEII Hospital Site, which we were told was the only option that was available and that it was not negotiable.


Mike, do you think it's right that the citizens of Welwyn Hatfield should be Mugabeed? Do you feel sick in your stomach everytime you think about the Super-hospital betrayal and the loss of our A&E?

The people of Welwyn Hatfield have been hunted like lame foxes by a pack of idiots intent on implementing a Marxist agenda. Mike, you're a decent bloke at heart, so why don't you give up the ghost?  Your Government is wrong...they are  betraying you and all of us. I used to think like you, then my experiences of the real world made me change my mind. I grew up and smelt the coffee....it was a bitter smell so I started drinking tea....with two sugars!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 09:51:45 PM by mythoughts »
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MikeHobday

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Re: NHS polyclinics will damage patient care
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2008, 10:03:46 PM »
Quote
I hope for their sake that that the bidding process does not require any demographic knowledge of the local area.


Where do you live Mike? And as for campaigning messages, can you remind us what you do for a living and what you campaign for?

I live in London Colney, on a council estate very similar to that around the QEII. Hence knowing that it is not that affluent.
My job? I am Head of Campaigns, Policy & Public Affairs for Macmillan Cancer Support. Catch me at http://www.macmillan.org.uk/About_Us/Our_organisation/Our_people.aspx
One of my campaigns is that for free prescriptions, which you recently linked to in another thread.

Quote
One of the other issues of concern is the lack of democracy. Stakeholders including GPs and patients were not consulted before a decision was made to place the Darzi Surgery on the QEII Hospital Site, which we were told was the only option that was available and that it was not negotiable.

Thanks for spotting this. The GPs are wrong on this too. See the consultation at http://www.enherts-pct.nhs.uk/Content.asp?id=SX137E-A77F7107&cat=1335

Do you feel sick in your stomach everytime you think about the Super-hospital betrayal and the loss of our A&E?

Yes. I have always been, and continue to be, furious. But I'm not standing here moaning. We need to make the best of a very bad job. Hence my support for the"replacement" investment offered for the QEII site, including the GP led centre.

The people of Welwyn Hatfield have been hunted like lame foxes by a pack of idiots intent on implementing a Marxist agenda.

We'll have to disagree about the Marxist agenda, sorry!

Mike
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 10:06:50 PM by MikeHobday »
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Mighty Hatfield

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Re: NHS polyclinics will damage patient care
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2008, 01:14:21 PM »
Next the Labour Government has decided that Welwyn Hatfield has too many Post Offices close enough to us as a population to actually help foster a sense of community. But that's easily resolved by announcing, just the other week, that they'd have a consultation about shutting down three of the most popular ones. And we all know what they mean by 'consultation' from the hospital farce!


Or did they instead decide that they werent making enough money to be viablly kept open. As a tax payer who uses the post office twice a year, im happy with the decision.

Are they really three of the most popular ones? would you not consider by popular, you mean people actually use them, in which case, i think you'll find you are wrong as the Salisbury Square one is pretty much always empty and the other two are tiny compared to the larger (and busier) ones in Welwyn Hatfield.

If you are unable to get your facts straight about a campaign which you yourself championed, it is no real suprise to learn that you further misunderstand the letter which you received from Frances Cranfield, which im sure explicitly states,

Quote
"However I should make it clear that in the event that there is a failure to overturn this decision then the GPs in this locality are unanimous in their support for a GP bid to try to prevent further extension of privatisation of the NHS."

In case you didnt realise, the building of a super hospital in Hatfield, would most definately constitute "extension of privatisation of the NHS."

Perhaps our wannabee housing minister should ask forum member y-gwerin for some help re understanding the plight of the current NHS and just what political party thought it a good idea to begin the privatisation of it BEFORE he begins to use it as a political soapbox.

Not really sure where the Marxist agenda comes from Mythoughts, do you know what Marxism is or are you simply regurgitating someone elses words? im pretty sure theres nothing from Karl Marx's hand about privatising healthcare.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 01:33:06 PM by Mighty Hatfield »
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mythoughts

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Re: NHS polyclinics will damage patient care
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2008, 01:23:07 PM »
Quote
idiots intent on implementing a Marxist agenda


http://www.marx-brothers.org/

Quote
The polyclinic was the cornerstone of the health care systems of the former
socialist countries, established first in the Soviet Union in the 1920s and then
in the various countries of Eastern Europe.


http://www.cubasol-manch.org.uk/The%20idea%20of%20the%20polyclinic.pdf

And from the Socialist Health Association:

Quote
Our proposed model envisages Practice premises or where they exist, Health Centres/ Polyclinics, providing a range of services, in addition to the traditional primary healthcare services, such as Benefits Advice and social services; and acting as a signpost to relevant services such as housing advice and environmental health. At the same time, by working with local community development workers, health protective social networks could be formed.


http://www.sochealth.co.uk/Policy/inequalityNHS.htm


Quote
The Socialist Health Association exists to promote health and wellbeing, social justice, and the eradication of inequalities through the application of socialist principles to society and government.

We are an active campaigning organisation. As well as supporting critical debate about the wide range of issues that affect health and wellbeing in the third millennium, we want to make a difference by having influence on the government and the Labour Party.


« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 01:40:05 PM by mythoughts »
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Mighty Hatfield

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Re: NHS polyclinics will damage patient care
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2008, 01:58:45 PM »
nice try, but there is nothing in common with whats going on in the uk today and what the soviets did in the 20s, or what the socialist health association wants to commendably do. If you define that as Marxist, then you have to be clear that what the Governement is trying to do is anything but Marxist despite the name of 'polyclinic' being mentioned.

similarities with groucho and co however........  ;)
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mythoughts

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Re: NHS polyclinics will damage patient care
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2008, 06:42:12 PM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2006/jan/31/uk.health

The latest big idea for the NHS is nothing new in Europe. The concept of the polyclinic - where patients can see a range of specialists under one roof - owes its inspiration to a 19th century doctor who once treated Goethe, and to socialist East Germany.

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/44698,features,polyclinics-the-soviet-solution
There can't be many New Labour policies that have Soviet origins. But the large scale health centres or polyclinics currently under discussion as part of Lord Darzi's proposals for the NHS in England do have very surprising historical roots.

Marxism-lite?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 06:47:01 PM by mythoughts »
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Tikabila

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Re: NHS polyclinics will damage patient care
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2008, 06:53:00 PM »
Labour MP in the House of Commons today at PMQ's asked for all MP's to wish the NHS happy 60th birthday, how long before we are attending its funeral.

Would be interesting to know how many doctors who have been trained at our expense, have actually stayed in the UK and how many have gone to distant shores, I bet an awful lot have taken up the wonderful offers from Canada and Australia.

Perhaps Grant could find out for us.
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