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[Mighty Hatfield]

again, you are ignoring the fact that UAF or not, trouble follows the EDLs "demonstrations"
 
its pretty hard to ignore someone marching down your street, shouting racist slogans, smashing cars and shop fronts up. Im sure you wouldnt be sitting in your front room tutting while all this was happening would you?
 
Im not saying people should resort to violence. Im simply saying you cant stick your head in the sand and expect it all to go away. What stopped the national front in the 70s? it wasnt apathy or ignoring them.

[GhostTown68]

I dont condone violence by either side - as I've said, the EDL are so utterly ridiculous, so easy to discredit, that it shouldnt require any sort of violence.

I do find it hilarious though reading Arthurs comments about the UAF in relation to his comments on the EDL when in the EXACT SAME situation. Utterly hypocritical, nonsensical tripe that only reinforces the condemnation his group widely receives.

The majority of the people on each side of the 'fence' as it were only go to these demos because they know it'll kick off. Plain and simple, you only have to watch footage of these events to know that.

I was prepared to credit Arthur with being one of the naive few who really were standing up for the rights of Muslim women, until he started ignoring clear facts and signing off with 'no surrender'.

[Geoff]

Im not saying people should resort to violence. Im simply saying you cant stick your head in the sand and expect it all to go away. What stopped the national front in the 70s? it wasnt apathy or ignoring them.

The National Front died of natural causes precisely because it was ignored, both by the media and, of course, the electorate. The vast majority of people are far too savvy to be taken in by tired cliches and soundbites. 

A wannabee politician preaching to a rag bag assortment of the already converted and a few curious bystanders doesn't warrant media space.  A riot does.  Consequently the EDL win both ways.  Publicity for their "cause" and a degree of sympathy when they claim a lawful demonstration has been disrupted.

I find the EDL something of a joke. Others may regard them as more of a threat, but I find the ranting of those who want to stifle their freedom of speech equally, if not more, repugnant.  Either we live in a democracy and accept that some people  hold views very different to our own, or we exist in some quasi Stalinist society where the thought police quietly remove from our midst those who do not toe the line.

I know the type of society I prefer.

[Mighty Hatfield]

Im not saying people should resort to violence. Im simply saying you cant stick your head in the sand and expect it all to go away. What stopped the national front in the 70s? it wasnt apathy or ignoring them.

The National Front died of natural causes precisely because it was ignored, both by the media and, of course, the electorate. The vast majority of people are far too savvy to be taken in by tired cliches and soundbites. 

A wannabee politician preaching to a rag bag assortment of the already converted and a few curious bystanders doesn't warrant media space.  A riot does.  Consequently the EDL win both ways.  Publicity for their "cause" and a degree of sympathy when they claim a lawful demonstration has been disrupted.

I find the EDL something of a joke. Others may regard them as more of a threat, but I find the ranting of those who want to stifle their freedom of speech equally, if not more, repugnant.  Either we live in a democracy and accept that some people  hold views very different to our own, or we exist in some quasi Stalinist society where the thought police quietly remove from our midst those who do not toe the line.

I know the type of society I prefer.

I disagree, they werent allowed to convene rallies, faced opposition at any and all points, and simply retreated back into their hole to form the BNP. Now i dislike the BNP inherently, but they are far less prone to going around beating people up on the streets than the National Front was.

I really dont think anyone of sound judgement is feeling too much sympathy for them. Not when the news of the world is publishing stories about them celebrating the attacking of a policewoman.

Ive said it before but im all for people being able to express views, those i agree with or otherwise. I wouldnt have it any other way.

But theres expressing your views, and then theres overstepping the mark.  The Islam4uk organisation was banned was it not? 

I do agree, that inherently, the actions of the EDL seem to be pretty much at odds with what they claim to be in support of (after all, you dont create a more moderate Islamic community by threatening them), and I think thats a shame. But theres more than a joke factor, when you have 800 odd footsoldiers apparently drunk/on drugs, and looking for a chance to have a punch-up.   

I fully accept that the poor residents of these towns that keep being invaded by both sides would much rather they simply left them alone and did something a bit more constructive about the causes they obviously care passionately about.

Either way theres no question of the 'thought police' being involved here, as it keeps happening, if they are attempting to remove people to ensure these things dont happen, they arent doing a very good job? Perhaps theyve been merged with the pc brigade

[Arthur]

The last two protests have been well controlled and this has shown what the UAF are really like.
They pre-plan their violent confrontations with the EDL, all over the net you can read how they plan to breakout of the police lines and confront us.
We reported these sites to the police and this is why they went into the UAF protest to pull out the ring leaders. About time too.

Our stewards were praised by the police for the good job they did, any violence by supporters of the EDL have been by hot heads and some infiltrators and now our stewards won't let this happen again.

The UAF have shot themselves in the foot, what mainstream politician can now say they support the UAF and perhaps some of the unions ought to be looking at their support of public disorder.
The NUT and Unite should withdraw their funding and put the money saved in some thing more worth while.

My view is that the UAF and others on the left are becoming very frustrated at their inability to stop the EDL and I believe their violence will increase.

EDL are not the NF or BNP and we won't be gagged. We will only stop when the battle is won and government of whatever colour listens.

Arthur.

[Martian]

Like Anne I fear for my grandchildren. Personally I think the Balkans would give a better likeness.
 
The clashes we are beginning to see are the early stages in the gradual breakdown of public order. I am thinking in terms of decades rather than a few years.
 
The fact that the BNP obtained nearly a million votes in the European elections suggest what is already happening. The arrival of protest movements adhering to one cause or the other also suggests this in my view.
 
It was of course totally unforeseeable. Who would have that having millions of people coming to live in a culture totally alien to them could possibly lead to any form of social conflict?
 
MH I'm still waiting for a reply to my question after the events of last weekend regarding the arrests of 55 UAF members who according to the police were extremely violent does the UAF still have your support? A simple Yes or No answer will suffice.

[Mighty Hatfield]

Like Anne I fear for my grandchildren. Personally I think the Balkans would give a better likeness.
 
The clashes we are beginning to see are the early stages in the gradual breakdown of public order. I am thinking in terms of decades rather than a few years.
 
The fact that the BNP obtained nearly a million votes in the European elections suggest what is already happening. The arrival of protest movements adhering to one cause or the other also suggests this in my view.
 
It was of course totally unforeseeable. Who would have that having millions of people coming to live in a culture totally alien to them could possibly lead to any form of social conflict?
 
MH I'm still waiting for a reply to my question after the events of last weekend regarding the arrests of 55 UAF members who according to the police were extremely violent does the UAF still have your support? A simple Yes or No answer will suffice.

Your question is so full of assumptions im afraid a yes/no answer will not suffice.

Were all 55 persons arrested UAF members?
Were all arrested for extreme violence?

As ive said before, UAF has the support of many persons from all political parties, I do not support violence, though i do support people in the fight against fascism rearing its ugly head on these shores.

Though im not sure what else is to be gained in discussing this with someone who compares the UK with what went on in the balkans.

[disgruntled]

Like Anne I fear for my grandchildren. Personally I think the Balkans would give a better likeness.
 
The clashes we are beginning to see are the early stages in the gradual breakdown of public order. I am thinking in terms of decades rather than a few years.
 
The fact that the BNP obtained nearly a million votes in the European elections suggest what is already happening. The arrival of protest movements adhering to one cause or the other also suggests this in my view.
 
It was of course totally unforeseeable. Who would have that having millions of people coming to live in a culture totally alien to them could possibly lead to any form of social conflict?
 
MH I'm still waiting for a reply to my question after the events of last weekend regarding the arrests of 55 UAF members who according to the police were extremely violent does the UAF still have your support? A simple Yes or No answer will suffice.

Ahhh
The old "Rivers of Blood" mentality. Come back Enoch, you were right all along. Not.

The threat to our way of life originates from the crass ignorance of some members of the indigenous population. I don't buy this siege mentality, its more dangerous than the very tiny minority of religious extremists that have landed here. But, perhaps, not as dangerous as the in house "Christian" faith that has systematically sexually abused and raped our kids for decades. Perhaps centuries.

March on Rome anyone?

[Martian]

MH Apparently the record shows that yes 55 members of the UAF were arrested and it is also on record that the police have stated that mebers of the UAF were extremely violent. But please if you have information suggesting these reports are wrong please let me know.
 
Unless I here to the contrary your defence of the UAF sounds little different to Arthurs defence of the EDL and will consequently be given as much respect.
 
 

[Martian]

Disgruntled In case you were thinking  otherwise I am an Atheist and have been from a very early age so that your diatribe against religion may well be better directed against others who respond to these threads.
 
For the purposes of the discussion it matters little as far as I am concerned whether it is due to the crass ignorance of the population or enlightened people such as yourself.
 
I merely point out what is happening and that this is a worrying feature of our society. Of course if you have no concerns about the future good on you.

[disgruntled]

Disgruntled In case you were thinking  otherwise I am an Atheist and have been from a very early age so that your diatribe against religion may well be better directed against others who respond to these threads.
 
For the purposes of the discussion it matters little as far as I am concerned whether it is due to the crass ignorance of the population or enlightened people such as yourself.
 
I merely point out what is happening and that this is a worrying feature of our society. Of course if you have no concerns about the future good on you.

I have children and grandchildren, so you can rest assured that I have concerns about their future. None of those concerns are based upon an irrational fear of differing customs and faith however.
Like you I am an atheist, but my comment was not aimed at faith per se. It was aimed at those that would choose one particular faith to direct their anger and fear at. The EDL for example.

Let me think, should I be more angry at a faith that subordinates its female adherents to men, or one that sexually abuses and rapes children.

Let me take a nano second to consider that........

[Mighty Hatfield]

MH Apparently the record shows that yes 55 members of the UAF were arrested and it is also on record that the police have stated that mebers of the UAF were extremely violent. But please if you have information suggesting these reports are wrong please let me know.
 
Unless I here to the contrary your defence of the UAF sounds little different to Arthurs defence of the EDL and will consequently be given as much respect.
 

You misunderstand the point. The 'record' is not a newspaper article.

If the edl came to Welwyn and hatfield, and you attended a protest march, would that make you a UAF member?

Unless you have access to police arrest records, you are branding everyone arrested as such. Unless you have access to the records, your branding of 55 arrests for violence is also pure speculation. Many of those could have in all likelyhood been arrested for d&d, obstructing a police officer, or anything else they wished to dream up, as is common in these situations.

Im not sure why my opinion (which has already been given) is even relevant. I am not a member of UAF. Sounds to me like youve read something and made a series of assumptions, and we know what that does.

[Arthur]

Disgruntled In case you were thinking  otherwise I am an Atheist and have been from a very early age so that your diatribe against religion may well be better directed against others who respond to these threads.
 
For the purposes of the discussion it matters little as far as I am concerned whether it is due to the crass ignorance of the population or enlightened people such as yourself.
 
I merely point out what is happening and that this is a worrying feature of our society. Of course if you have no concerns about the future good on you.

I have children and grandchildren, so you can rest assured that I have concerns about their future. None of those concerns are based upon an irrational fear of differing customs and faith however.
Like you I am an atheist, but my comment was not aimed at faith per se. It was aimed at those that would choose one particular faith to direct their anger and fear at. The EDL for example.

Let me think, should I be more angry at a faith that subordinates its female adherents to men, or one that sexually abuses and rapes children.

Let me take a nano second to consider that........

That's a daft analogy, a better one would be a religion that straps bombs round little 9 year olds or buries disobedient daughters alive.

Arthur.

[GhostTown68]

The last two protests have been well controlled and this has shown what the UAF are really like.
They pre-plan their violent confrontations with the EDL, all over the net you can read how they plan to breakout of the police lines and confront us.
We reported these sites to the police and this is why they went into the UAF protest to pull out the ring leaders. About time too.

Our stewards were praised by the police for the good job they did, any violence by supporters of the EDL have been by hot heads and some infiltrators and now our stewards won't let this happen again.

The UAF have shot themselves in the foot, what mainstream politician can now say they support the UAF and perhaps some of the unions ought to be looking at their support of public disorder.
The NUT and Unite should withdraw their funding and put the money saved in some thing more worth while.

My view is that the UAF and others on the left are becoming very frustrated at their inability to stop the EDL and I believe their violence will increase.

EDL are not the NF or BNP and we won't be gagged. We will only stop when the battle is won and government of whatever colour listens.

Arthur.

To what? What exactly do you want them to listen to? The izlamifickashun of Inglund?

Your group is pointless. Your role as 'oblivious blog poster' on here is pointless, if sometimes amusing. Only an idiot or an EDL agent would read the sheer weight of evidence that contradicts your 'we're nice we are' viewpoint and still bleat on about it.

Why are the arrests for the UAF on this protest SO significant, yet the repeated arrests for your lot on every protest so far to be dismissed? You have jumped all over the UAF arrests here, yet every time the violent nature of EDL protesters is put to you, you either ignore it or claim they aren't in the EDL!

Please try and actually deal with that one, instead of your usual blog posts.

[GhostTown68]

The people fearing for their future should worry not, assuming they can remember the 'glory years' of football violence in the 70s? Thats all this is, bored, pointless men looking for a tear up. The only difference this time round is the colour of the 'enemys' skin, rather than the scarves tied to their wrists as it used to be.

we see the people organising these fights (lets use the correct term, protest almost makes it sound worthwhile) every few years, every time England play in a major international tournament - they haven't suddenly appeared from nowhere.