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[Anne]

I suppose addicts who might pick up infections from dirty toilets, could sue the landlord!

This is an appalling view of any town. What has happened? I grew up in Hatfield... This place is not safe to rear children!

[trekbat]

Getting back to Hatfield and it's promotion, has this idea ever been promoted or not. It is time to at least make a start to encourage more interest so, what do you propose to do to make it happen?

I'm not aware of any master plan or scheme to develop Hatfield. I get the impression that Hatfield has been 'written off' and is used as the county and borough's dumping ground. In short, there is no vision for the town.

As to what I am proposing or doing about - it shouldn't be down to me. I'm just a member of the public (and intend to stay just another member of the public). The responsibility is down to the local authorities and those people who have put themselves forward as community leaders / elected representatives - and are paid / reimbursed out of public funds to do the job.

Given that we all have a part to play, I have suggested this and other ideas. Previous ideas have been apparently ignored. So I then suggested we have an official council-run board, so they couldn't be just ignored - although that too seems to be ignored. We'll soon see if either the vision for Hatfield or the pub mystery shopper programme ideas in this thread get the same treatment.

So, now with elections looming and a brief window of opportunity, I have resorted to prodding the parties in power. It may not make much of difference in the end but at least I tried (and until either something is done about the numerous issues; the election takes place or I move away I shall continue to be very trying).

It does seem that the dealers don't try that hard to hide their actions, presumably because they believe there's little chance of being done.

Very true. It appears that the authorities either don't care or have surrended control to the baddies. The town centre needs a permanent police presence (dealers don't seem to have a problem maintaining theirs).

I see a destructive and wasteful chain of events. Hatfield houses vulnerable youngsters - dislocated from their families, possibly with a history of being abused - moved to a strange new town, they are likely to seek human company / their place in society by going to public places, like pubs, where the dealers are waiting like hungry sharks. They 'befriend' these youngsters, supply them with drugs and use them as mules (easy to spot: little boy, new to the place, starts swaggering around because he knows the dealers are on call. In the unlikely event of a raid, he gets carted off for possession with intent to supply). Other youngsters - vulnerable or otherwise - see the apparent impotence of authority and are similarly attracted to the lawless. Usual downward spiral and a life spent as a burden on the taxpayer being how the story ends.

This is an appalling view of any town. What has happened? I grew up in Hatfield... This place is not safe to rear children!

In a word: neglect.

In its defence the problems and behaviours described here are not exclusive to Hatfield (as jonmorris has pointed out) - they're repeated in inner city areas and rundown neighbourhoods across the country. And we don't have the levels of violence or gun crimes / stabbings that you get in certain areas of London and Manchester - yet.

One final thought: given that law makers, courts and the prison service are all nationally funded why isn't the police force which is at the sharp end?

[bbtzs]

Broken society eh!

Doesnt sound like a place to bring kids up does it?

[Broadside]

BBTZ,
Broken societies exist very much in WGC too.
Garden Cities , like WGC particularly, exemplify it.
What, generally, have residents of Knella Road for example, got in common with the soulless, pub free, pomposity of those living in the Pentley Park west side area?
Not much eh?
Letchworth Garden City, an earlier model, is much the same: gloomy and lifeless. For many recent years Letchworth couldn't even provide a football club to play in its stadium - until Baldock Town came along!
WGC FC lost 12-0 yesterday. A crowd of 36 was recorded. This includes the officials of both sides. What a dire situation. 
As town planners,these Quakers have a lot to answer for!
 
Regarding the drug scene: WGC is very bad too and has been since the early 1970s. It is well recorded.
As for WGC pubs! Where do you fancy meeting for a pint?

[bbtzs]

At least we have a measure of agreement about Broken Society then!

Reading the comments of many contributors to this forum I must say that it is refreshing to know that some people know that WGC has its 'problem areas' too. Having policed these towns, many years ago now, it was perfectly clear that once the original ideals of the WGC plan were jettisoned for more modern town planning, there was little to distinguish between the estates of Hatfield or WGC.

The west side WGC is a jewel like the Old town of Hatfield is. Much of the rest could be anytown anywhere really. The big distinguishing factor is John Lewis. That is what has saved the life of WGC Town Centre and it is the only reason that WGC has a Marks and Spencer, Debenhams, and probably a few more shops.

What a good thing that this brings in some extra revenue for the area because without it we would be sinking!

[jonmorris]

Isn't a major reason down to the way we live now - which is totally different to when WGC and the like were built?

WGC, Stevenage, Milton Keynes, Harlow and any other number of new towns were once built to be self-serving communities. Even more so places like Harlow or WGC, with everything you needed locally. They could still be that way, if it wasn't for the fact that people now live there and commute - because they happen to have excellent transport links and it's cheap to own and use a car (compared to before).

The only upside I guess is that more housing = more council tax revenue. That's about it though; all the money people earn is spent elsewhere.

If John Lewis ever decided to leave WGC, it would be devastating and have a clear knock-on effect. There's clearly nothing to force them to stay, although they won't go as long as they're making money. However, with the face of retail changing, it may not always be possible to for any business to afford a huge department store when they could have an out-of-town warehouse sending stuff out by post/lorry.

I hope this won't happen, but it might - and there's little any of us can do to stop it.

[mythoughts]

In town, the Red Lion and Airfield are both nice pubs, but clearly aimed more at people who eat.

I've never been to the Red Lion in Hatfield but I was doing some research into local pubs across Welwyn Hatfield last year (as I was very miffed about one of my favs in the general area, the Brocket Arms, changing hands) and came across that it was outside the Red Lion where Keith Moon's Bentley rolled over and killed his chauffeur Neil Boland. There is some dispute about whether The Who drummer was actually driving. Apparently, in those days, the pub was frequented by skinheads who were also caught up in this particular incident. Sounds like a lots changed since then and clearly for the better!

[bbtzs]

Fortunately WGC is one of John Lewis's more profitable stores. Their on lines sales are rocketing but they rely often on people visiting to try, feel, see what they are buying. there are things that you would not want to buy without first seeing and that is where it can be done.

The main difference between WGC, Letchworth and the others you mention is that the others are New Towns are were architectural disasters. Whilst they had great plans for traffic and cycleways and paths they look more like war torn Eastern Countries. Regrettably in the 50's and 60's Architects found boxes and decided what fun it would be to use them.

[jonmorris]

I do wonder if a lot of the success for John Lewis comes from the affluent part of WGC (West-side) and surrounding areas (St Albans, Harpenden, Tewin etc). It's not that John Lewis is overpriced, but they do carefully select what things to sell and don't sell anything cheap. They clearly have an image to project that's nearer to that of somewhere like Harrods than Tesco (which now sells most of what John Lewis does, if not all in store but via Tesco Direct).

All of these rich, obvious Tories (joke!), living in their large houses are actually holding the town together. By comparison, where is that 'support' for Hatfield?

Amazon is rumoured to be looking into opening stores, where you'll order online but collect in a store. I guess this will be akin to something like Argos, but it could help keep shops on the high-street even if the whole way of selling changes.

I certainly want to see certain things before ordering online, but everyone needs to keep doing that or the shops won't be able to afford to remain open just on the off chance that me or you decide to pop in and browse on Saturday afternoon.

[Anne]

WGC does have one advantage over Hatfield... the railway station, and bus station if it comes to that, are in the Town Centre. Easy access getting in and out!

[bbtzs]

John Lewis catchment area is all of the east and North of Hertfordshire and into Essex and Bedfordshire. People come from far and wide. As for prices I think many have misconceptions about it. I have bought a great deal over theyears and much of it was extremely competitive. When I bought a Hard Disc DVD recorder and got to the till with my very competitively priced bargain they said it was another £30 cheaper because of an 'undersale' by a competitor. there was no sign saying so but you can have a good deal of confidence in what you buy being very competitive.

[trekbat]

Hmm..do I detect a concerted effort to take the thread off topic?

[jonmorris]

It's worth noting that John Lewis price match locally, but not nationwide - and I've had better deals from John Lewis at Bluewater than WGC because of local competition.

Our TV was bought from JL and the 5-year warranty is excellent. Our TV was just over two years old when it died, and it was repaired FOC - with a loan TV for the duration. Excellent service, and worth far more than any little saving from another retailer (or the nightmare had it been purchased online from a supplier you can only speak to via email).

But this is off topic - I apologise!

[Broadside]

Anne,
You say "WGC does have one advantage over Hatfield... the railway station, and bus station if it comes to that, are in the Town Centre. Easy access getting in and out!"
 
No it doesn't. Hatfield has a very busy bus terminus at its railway station AND at the District Centre by the Galleria.
In fact there are an incredible amount of buses around the town. All day and every day.

[Mighty Hatfield]

In town, the Red Lion and Airfield are both nice pubs, but clearly aimed more at people who eat.

I've never been to the Red Lion in Hatfield but I was doing some research into local pubs across Welwyn Hatfield last year (as I was very miffed about one of my favs in the general area, the Brocket Arms, changing hands) and came across that it was outside the Red Lion where Keith Moon's Bentley rolled over and killed his chauffeur Neil Boland. There is some dispute about whether The Who drummer was actually driving. Apparently, in those days, the pub was frequented by skinheads who were also caught up in this particular incident. Sounds like a lots changed since then and clearly for the better!

thats not strictly true. Maybe one day we can have a pint in the red lion and go over it :-)

Hatfield has some 'good' pubs, it all depends on what you get out of a pub i suppose, i guess i set  my sights pretty low but being able to enjoy a pint (of whatever, im not overly fussy) with friends, bit of music, and if the mood takes me, some football, and im happy.

The main problem is most of them are only ever half full and therefore devoid of any atmosphere. Most people (of my age) seem to agree that St Albans pubs are far superior, however theres little real difference other than the amount of people who are in them. Too much loud music for my liking though!