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[bbtzs]

markwoods
Dont start getting to uptight about a few foxes. You will want them all killed when relying on rabbits you can catch to feed your family. That is what will be required if the current govt continue with the destruction of our country and its economy. This Fox hunting will be decided by our elected representatives through the democratic process only by the elction of a Conservative Government. Without that FREE vote this will trundle on forever diverting people from the real issues.

[MikeHobday]

Usual thing from Mike Hobday. A Lie. He says the Tories say animal abuse should be legal. Now, if that is not a lie, I will apologise for saying it is.

I shall of course want some kind of evidence unlike the mealy mouthed type of answer that says 'well that is my interpretation' because if it is, that is what should be said.

Dear Bbtzs,
I often disagree with your opinions, but I've never accused you of lieing because you hold them. Can honest people not just disagree from time to time.

I'm making two points, and I'm not sure which you disagree with so strongly:
1. I'm saying that fox hunting (and hare coursing, stag hunting etc.) is cruel to the point of abuse. I define "cruelty" as the causing of unnecessary suffering, and I'm suggesting that fox hunting (and hare coursing, stag hunting etc.) is both unnecessary and that it causes suffering. I'd point to a number of sources to justify my opinion, but I'll just stick with the opinion of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals for now;
2. I'm saying that the Conservative Party, and Grant Shapps as the local MP, will vote to allow fox hunting (and hare coursing, stag hunting etc.) to become legal once again. My sources for this are in my earlier post on this thread, http://www.shapps.com/forum/index.php/topic,6390.msg51750.html#msg51750.

I hope this helps.
 
Sincerely,
 
Mike

[mythoughts]

markwoods
Dont start getting to uptight about a few foxes. You will want them all killed when relying on rabbits you can catch to feed your family. That is what will be required if the current govt continue with the destruction of our country and its economy. This Fox hunting will be decided by our elected representatives through the democratic process only by the elction of a Conservative Government. Without that FREE vote this will trundle on forever diverting people from the real issues.

Actually, it is a real issue for 70 per cent of the population BB that agreed with a ban on hunting foxes with hounds.  As for the equally cruel and barbaric "pasttime" of  hare coursing, the Welwyn Hatfield Times has already covered the police's attempts to counter this evil "sport" flourishing in our near country-side:
 
The editorial started off with:
 

A CRUEL and vicious blood sport where animals get ripped apart is taking place just a mile from WGC town centre.

The brutal hare coursing events see lurcher dogs let loose to chase defenceless hares, which are torn limb from limb - not for food but just for fun
[/]

 
You can read more of how outraged our local paper was about the issue here:

http://hertsad.herts24.co.uk/content/whtimes/multimedia/video/story.aspx?brand=WHTOnline&category=Media_Video&tBrand=HertsCambsOnline&tCategory=videoWHT&itemid=WEED04%20Sep%202008%2012%3A34%3A34%3A403

However, it seems to me you're running scared now that the issue ever saw daylight again and have self-appointed yourself as "advocate for moving on". You'll be very surprised though how people of all voting predelictions can be affected by such an issue. Very.

[markwoods39]

Quotemarkwoods
Dont start getting to uptight about a few foxes. You will want them all killed when relying on rabbits you can catch to feed your family. That is what will be required if the current govt continue with the destruction of our country and its economy

Sir, I don't know you or who you support, but have a fair idea With comments like above you are letting your side down with stupid comments like above .  It seem to me the cons  will do anything now to support blood sports ? I was and my family was a con supporter, but we shall now have to have a re-think. We do think your comments let your side down BIG TIME,and think Mr Snapps should think about how his people { if you are one of them } how they should conduct themselves on a public forum. I myself and my family think the comments you have made above are very childish and grabbing at straws. Please don't think we are all stupid

[bbtzs]

Quotemarkwoods
Dont start getting to uptight about a few foxes. You will want them all killed when relying on rabbits you can catch to feed your family. That is what will be required if the current govt continue with the destruction of our country and its economy

Sir, I don't know you or who you support, but have a fair idea With comments like above you are letting your side down with stupid comments like above .  It seem to me the cons  will do anything now to support blood sports ? I was and my family was a con supporter, but we shall now have to have a re-think. We do think your comments let your side down BIG TIME,and think Mr Snapps should think about how his people { if you are one of them } how they should conduct themselves on a public forum. I myself and my family think the comments you have made above are very childish and grabbing at straws. Please don't think we are all stupid

I am nothing to do with Grant Shapps or the Conservatives. You can discount any conspiracy theories. I am my own person and have my own mind. If the population doesnt want Fox Hunting I am quite happy for it to be banned but it should be done properly with sensible and justifiable legislation that accounts for the minorities that it will cruelly dispossess. This is an emotive issue as you can see but emotional responses rarely lead to a new future without problems because alternative emotions are raised in others. What we need is a FREE vote for MP's and if necessary a campaign to change the mind of your MP. That is how democracy should work. At present we have an unworkable law that was an emotional response and drummed up to help Labour win an election. It needed thinking through before they started the bandwagon and they ended up by bullying support just to pass this quite unworkable piece of legislation.

The issue doesnt need to be left where it is (Labour policy as I understand it), it needs raising again but properly. I think the proposal to give MP's a free vote is a sensible thing to do.

Personally I dont get over excited about Fox hunting. I am more interested in other matters.

[markwoods39]

bbtzs, I thank you for your sensible reply back.

[bbtzs]

Markwoods

Thankyou for reading my answer.

[bbtzs]

Mike Hobday
Again you say nothing to withdraw your accusation that the Conservatives say 'Animal abuse should be legal'. I realise that once pushed you can use more reasonable language but again you are quite happy to use spiteful and untrue words to describe others rather than give your view and let others give theirs. It is this kind of spite and nasty tactic that has been a hall mark of New labour and it continues unabated. For me the thing we most need in Politics to clean it up is the removal of this cheap jibing.


If sensible argument were to return amongst Politicians I would be extremely pleased. In the meantime you show only that your behaviour is part of what I am anxious to rid our Country of. Lying spiteful slurring of other opinions.

When I look at Politics today I have to say that the 'nastiest' party I have ever known is the Present Govt. It is this behaviour that has helped greatly to switch people off of Politics and take a devil may care attitude.

As a local politician you have a choice of showing decency instead of 'hatred' and 'spite'. Would that not be a far better approach?

[MikeHobday]

Bbtzs,
I'm sorry we disagree, but I genuinely believe that using a pack of slow running dogs to chase an animal to the point of exhaustion in order to rip it apart is cruel to the point of abuse. This would be illegal if the animal being chased were domestic or farmed, and the cruelty is the same if the animal is wild. It's well established that Conservative MPs will vote overwhelmingly to make such activity legal once more. What lie precisely do you think I am telling?
 
Mike

[bbtzs]

MH You say they are in favour of cruelty to animals. Where have they said that? That is a wide ranging untruth, puts words in their mouth they have never said and is all because of your disagreement on a piece of legislation that as I understand it has the intention of repealing a piece of law that is famous for its failure to acheive any constructive success. What is more, rather than rely on parliamentary tomfoolery, there is an offer of a free vote for all MP's so they can vote with their conscience and as influenced by their electorate when the time comes.

This is much more democratic and proper than the way much of the Labour legislation has been forced through parliament bullying members to vote against their consciences for such things as 'going to war' and tuition fees.

Are you saying that you want your views to prevail over those of a democratically elected parliament?

Tell me where Conservatives have said they are in favour of animal cruelty and I will apologise for calling you a liar. In the meantime a little more judicious use of language and less spiteful slurring and you may find my responses more gentle!

[Anne]

... a little more judicious use of language and less spiteful slurring and you may find my responses more gentle!

What constitutes a 'more gentle' response? Less bullying... perchance?

[Mighty Hatfield]

... a little more judicious use of language and less spiteful slurring and you may find my responses more gentle!

What constitutes a 'more gentle' response? Less bullying... perchance?

If there is any bullying here, then perhaps its the job of the moderators here to look into it.

All i see is a succession of topics, bizzarely twisted into surreal directions by the same few people.

[markwoods39]

 but I genuinely believe that using a pack of slow running dogs to chase an animal to the point of exhaustion in order to rip it apart is cruel to the point of abuse. This would be illegal if the animal being chased were domestic or farmed, and the cruelty is the same if the animal is wild.

I did put up a post similar to this, but it has been taken OFF ?? 

[Lid]

I did put up a post similar to this, but it has been taken OFF ?? 

There is nothing on the recycle board to that I can see. What date did you post this?

[Anne]

Mark,
There is a post on February 23, 2010, 10:03:10 PM...

Bbtzs,
I'm sorry we disagree, but I genuinely believe that using a pack of slow running dogs to chase an animal to the point of exhaustion in order to rip it apart is cruel to the point of abuse. This would be illegal if the animal being chased were domestic or farmed, and the cruelty is the same if the animal is wild. It's well established that Conservative MPs will vote overwhelmingly to make such activity legal once more. What lie precisely do you think I am telling?
 
Mike