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[Rupert]

Latest news on Eco- towns progress from the BBC gives the following info- assuming the figures from the BBC are correct the prospect for meeting demands for affordable housing with Eco-towns looks dismal.

Does anyone have any ideas how the huge shortfall in affordable housing is going to be met?



(BBC News (2009) 'Eco-town' plans: Site-by-site’ article dated 28/01/09 [online]  last accessed 24/07/09, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7328138.stm#)

[adamedwardsteather]

The big problem with many of the so called eco towns is that they will be suburban developments in rural areas relying on buses as the only eco means of transport.  Which really means most people will use their cars so undermining the eco idea.
 
In other more enlightened countries such as Germany, eco suburbs of exisiting towns are built with trams or rail links plus lots of cycle paths into the existing town centres, but also no car parking and legal contract that if you live there you cannot have one.  Imagine if Salisbury Village had been built with a tram link from Hatfield station, a cycle path all the way (may actually get the link to the station this year if HCC don;t cut it) and a ban on car ownership.  Is any political party going to dare to do something as radical as this?
 
Adam

[Rupert]

I agree Adam, Europe are way ahead in most areas to do with climate change and recycling.

The UK energy efficiency initiative is working towards targets already a Swedish standard in 1975 building regs. The difference in climate between Sweden and the UK does not appear sufficient to explain this away.

However the question was-

What are the options to meet the backlog of affordable housing?

Surely this might be an area for discussion for Mr Schapps?

[jonmorris]

I would never go as far as to ban car ownership, but offering alternatives that are irresistible is the perfect way to solve things. A tram link from the business park to the station would be ideal - but the cycle path is a step in the right direction. I really hope it isn't axed.

We currently have a bus service that runs to the business park until 11pm 7-days a week. The contract is for a certain number of years, but will it be continued when a lot of the buses run empty (although far fewer than when it started)? Of course, if the buses are axed - no doubt evenings and weekends first - then it will mean people forced back into their cars or made to use expensive taxis. So, is there a case for the council and Government in general to force services to run even when they're not profitable?

HCC already does subsidise many routes - but how do we know for how long they'll continue to do so?

If you live in London, you can quite happily do without a car - but until the same is the case elsewhere, people will be forced to use the car. For me, I'm quite happy that I've got a car but only use it when I absolutely need to. I see no harm in this, as cars still have many advantages. Most people are either pro-car or anti-car with little inbetween.

[NeilB]

quote from Rupert.  The difference in climate between Sweden and the UK does not appear sufficient to explain this away.

I have visited Sweden on several occasions and have regular contact with people who live there.  Apart from longer days summertime can be very similar to the UK.  However, the winters are much colder and it's not unusual for there to be snow on the ground for several weeks at a time.  They do not feel the effects of the Gulf stream as we do in the UK.  Only a couple of years ago they had snow for 3 months solid in Gothenberg.
 
 

Quote from Adam.  also no car parking and legal contract that if you live there you cannot have one

 
If that's the case then personally I would rather live in a tent!!!  I do not know of a way, other than by car, to get from WH to work at Watford in 30 mins (sometimes 25 mins if light traffic) without having to:
Stop every 5 mins.
Change to a different bus/train.
Listen to someone elses music.
Listen to someone elses phone conversation.
Not being able to control the temperature.
Smell someones else BO.
etc, etc, etc....
 
 
I've heard of lots of so called "affordable housing" but so far I have not come across any that I would call affordable.  Most of them seem a rip off.
 
 

[jonmorris]

Using public transport isn't quite as bad as the picture painted above, but it's still perfectly valid saying that there's no easy way to get to Watford quickly (that said, there are various Uno buses that go to Watford).

There are many developments in London where you are not allowed a car (nice and simple to enforce too, as they provide NO parking anywhere nearby). A lot of developments in the docklands area are like this, which is silly because the DLR isn't that great - and from that part of London, you're actually quite easily able to get out of town by car. No wonder a lot of people never really travel very far - and I wonder if this is a deliberate attempt to keep up the 'EastEnders' style image where going somewhere is a big event!

[Rupert]

quote from Rupert.  The difference in climate between Sweden and the UK does not appear sufficient to explain this away.

Quote from NeilB- "I have visited Sweden on several occasions and have regular contact with people who live there.  Apart from longer days summertime can be very similar to the UK.  However, the winters are much colder and it's not unusual for there to be snow on the ground for several weeks at a time.  They do not feel the effects of the Gulf stream as we do in the UK.  Only a couple of years ago they had snow for 3 months solid in Gothenberg."

I point out that the house building industry is currently working to acheive U values (apart from in the area of flooring) that where put in place in Sweden in 1975. The illustration is how far behind Europe the Uk is.

Recycling facilities in the Uk also lag behind Europe. On my german travels I've found them fierde in the aim to try to recycle almost everything.

So, I ask again, what are the options for affordable housing- has anyone got any positive ideas?

MMC prefabricated houses or... or... or...?


 

[jonmorris]

Sweden seems to get proper seasons, so they get nice hot summers and cold winters (although quite mild in recent years, so not much snow down south).

We tried pre-fab housing in the 60s or 70s without success, but things have moved on somewhat. The Germans, Danes, Swedes - probably many more, have been doing it for years and have it sorted. Imagine building your dream house in a matter of days - all wired and plumbed and slotted together like a jigsaw (makes our stud partition walls look rather primitive!).

Of course, the problem here is the cost of the land and not the materials.

[Rupert]

Totally agree Jonmorris

I looked into the self build options a little while back and whilst the houses are a decent price for a family home, land was extremely scarce and not available at an affordable price.

European kit houses are stunning.

I believe that a statutory part of planning department regulations is that there must be a list of available land put aside for development for a period of 5 years.

Does anyone know where this list is published for either Hertfordshire or WGC & Hatfield?

[jonmorris]

Don't know about the list, but I did hear that a lot of developers that were land banking are now quite keen to sell off plots for self-builds - at good prices too.

When things pick up again, those plots will disappear - so now is a good time to be looking at the self-build option.