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[shapps]

Please,lets stop all the sniping, this is meant to be an all party action to hopefully show county how important this issue is.no party is doing themselves any favours either hitting out or trying to justify ,can we please get on withthe job.I am really concerned at possible long term health problems from the flyash and gases.If it must happen lets try and get it to a more suitable site away from housing,.There are people who can really look at the other sites aready operating and investigate their results ,we need to know more.

I absolutely agree with you. And I make a point of not making narrow political points on bit arguments like this because it's crazy to pretend that one person or party has all the answers. So let's return this thread back to the matter at hand - the incinerator. If you haven't signed the Save New Barnfield petition yet then please do here http://www.SaveNewBarnfield.com

[shapps]

>> Have to laugh at Grant claiming to be 'from Hatfield' though, Brookmans Park is as much Welwyn Hatfield as London Colney is!

I beg to differ GhostTown68. Not only is Brookmans Park very much part of Welwyn Hatfield with both the constituency and the Borough claiming it, but it actually has Hatfield in the postal address! If you exclude Brookmans Park, then presumably you'd also like to disenfranchise the residents of Welham Green, Essendon, Little Heath, The Ayots, Lemsford Village, Welwyn itself (as opposed to WGC), Oaklands, Newgate Street Village, Woolmer Green, etc.  So according to you 15,000 to 20,000 of my constituents aren't really from Welwyn Hatfield.

London Colney is not in the constituency or Borough. Pretty clear cut I would have thought.

[Mighty Hatfield]

>> Have to laugh at Grant claiming to be 'from Hatfield' though, Brookmans Park is as much Welwyn Hatfield as London Colney is!

I beg to differ GhostTown68. Not only is Brookmans Park very much part of Welwyn Hatfield with both the constituency and the Borough claiming it, but it actually has Hatfield in the postal address! If you exclude Brookmans Park, then presumably you'd also like to disenfranchise the residents of Welham Green, Essendon, Little Heath, The Ayots, Lemsford Village, Welwyn itself (as opposed to WGC), Oaklands, Newgate Street Village, Woolmer Green, etc.  So according to you 15,000 to 20,000 of my constituents aren't really from Welwyn Hatfield.

London Colney is not in the constituency or Borough. Pretty clear cut I would have thought.

Constituency boundarys can change though grant, as they did when they suddenly included brookmans park. I think bringing up where you live is rather a moot point because of this. If you asked most residents of Brookmans Park, they would reply BP, not Hatfield. Also, i can claim to be from Hatfield, because I was born, bred, live and work here.

On the issue dizzy raised, i think its entirely appropriate to debate who is making the decisions, who has said what, who agrees with what etc. Lets not pretend that this idea of an incinerator is simply being imposed upon us by private companies (as herts county council claim "well we'll have to wait and see what they come up with) or, what im waiting for, that the idea is somehow being imposed on us by Gordon Brown.

There is a very clear indication of who is in control of the county council, its the tories. Pointing that out is not sniping, its factual.

[finely tuned]

I have a question - how can Stuart Pile sign the petition, yet not voice any concern at the meeting about the incinerator? I'm not being facetious, or inciting trouble - I genuinely do not understand how it is possible for him to be against, and for, the incinerator at New Barnfield?
 
Have to laugh at Grant claiming to be 'from Hatfield' though, Brookmans Park is as much Welwyn Hatfield as London Colney is!
 
 

Grant only half the question has been answered. If Stuert or yourself could explain his actions of not voicing concern at county while quite obviously signing the petition against it if might help us residents understand the reasons for his actions.

ft

[shapps]

Constituency boundarys can change though grant, as they did when they suddenly included brookmans park. I think bringing up where you live is rather a moot point because of this. If you asked most residents of Brookmans Park, they would reply BP, not Hatfield. Also, i can claim to be from Hatfield, because I was born, bred, live and work here.
 

 Of course boundaries can and do change and I stand to be corrected on this if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Brookmans Park has been part of Welwyn Hatfield just as long as Welwyn Hatfield has existed as a constituency which was in 1974.  If you were born in Hatfield and are older than 35 then you wouldn't have original lived in a constituency known as Welwyn Hatfield either. I think it was probably Hertford and again I believe that Hatfield, Hertford, Brookmans Park, Essendon, etc were all in the constituency together.  Again, I stand to be corrected if wrong. My point is that the constituency is made up of two towns and a large number of other areas as described above and to try to suggest that some parts are more valuable than the other is wrong. I don't consider any part of my constituency as being less important than anywhere else. That though is different from not living in the constituency and telling us what we should all think of our local services.
 
 

On the issue dizzy raised, i think its entirely appropriate to debate who is making the decisions, who has said what, who agrees with what etc. Lets not pretend that this idea of an incinerator is simply being imposed upon us by private companies (as herts county council claim "well we'll have to wait and see what they come up with) or, what im waiting for, that the idea is somehow being imposed on us by Gordon Brown.
 

 Agreed. All very legitimate debating points.
 
 
 

There is a very clear indication of who is in control of the county council, its the tories. Pointing that out is not sniping, its factual.
 

 Agreed again. That's very legitimate debate. The weak debate I was pointing to was the bit which said that because a school wasn't saved the advocacy couldn't have been strong enough. That's taking people for fools. The wider point is that what's wrong with the system is too much centralised decision making meaning that local people feel powerless to change what's happening locally.
 
 
 

[sunnyjim]

Mike

PS Is London Colney where I live really so "afar." I've just checked on google maps, and its 7.4 miles from your home to WGC town centre, then 7.6 miles further to mine. So I'm less "local" than you by 0.2 of a mile. Is it time to stop the allegations of "afar"? Rightly, it worked well against Melanie Johnson in Cambridge, but perhaps it's time to change the approach?

My views must be even more important as I live less than half that distance away

[shapps]

=== Grant only half the question has been answered. If Stuert or yourself could explain his actions of not voicing concern at county while quite obviously signing the petition against it if might help us residents understand the reasons for his actions.
 

Grant only half the question has been answered. If Stuert or yourself could explain his actions of not voicing concern at county while quite obviously signing the petition against it if might help us residents understand the reasons for his actions.

That's a question you would have to address to Stuart Pile. I am not hear to answer for anyone but me I'm afraid. You can email Cllr Pile at Stuart.Pile@herts.gov.uk

[mythoughts]

Grant:
         

• Will everyone's name that signs the petition appear on it? I ask this because the list of people (well, councillors and a Mayor) that have "signed" it has not changed since the launch;
• Who will you be submitting this petition to?;
• In the petition dialogue you mention "So there ARE other places it could go, and New Barnfield ISN'T necessarily the best place for it to go." You also mention that the site is too near residents. Are you aware that of the two sites that were mentioned for WGC a) one is already near a massive housing estate, schools and the Gosling stadium b) the other is slap bang in the middle of proposed housing developments, schools and existing houses. Sadly, the maps used during the consultation were so old they didn't show some of the new developments - an issue in itself!
• With respect to point 3, if New Barnfield is finally rejected as a site for a waste incinerator, will you and all of our councillors equally oppose any plans for a waste incinerator in WGC, indeed, anywhere else in Welwyn Hatfield?
• As Councillor Pile seems to have made himself very unpopular regarding this issue, justified or not, perhaps it would be a good idea for him to come on this site as a "guest" for a "live" questions and answers. There was talk about using the forum in this way recently, so why not now?
• To lay to rest the issue of who lives nearest to Welwyn Hatfield - you or Mike, why don't the two of you challenge each other to a running race from your respective homes to a point, the University or Campus West, from each other's door. That way we could judge who could get to meetings quickest in the most environmentally way. For charity, of course. And I will sponsor you both if you do 

[shapps]

Sorry Grant, speaking as someone who has lived in Hatfield for over 30 years, I do have to laugh quite heartily at this. Whilst technically Brookmans Park may well 'come under' Welwyn Hatfield (I'm sure your neighbours dont think that), to say it is any more part of the town than London Colney is just ridiculous, especially as its been pointed out that theres a mere 0.2 miles difference.

Yes you're right of course it's a small point of debate and rather off topic from this thread, but I absolutely hate the attempt to try to suggest that certain parts of this Borough or Constituency of Welwyn Hatfield are somehow more in Welwyn Hatfield than other place. It's not right and people who live in Welwyn Hatfield, pay their Council Tax to Welwyn Hatfield and receive their services from Welwyn Hatfield all have the exact same claim to live in Welwyn Hatfield.

Considering you're asking for a 'mature level of debate' , I'm surprised your persuing this rather silly, irrelevant line of debate.

With respect and whilst I know that you'll always be keen to defend whatever Mike's saying it really does matter. Not least because I am absolutely rigid in representing all parts of my constituency and all constituents with the same level of vigour. Your apparent belief that some people are more 'Welwyn Hatfield' than others is, I am sure quite unintentionally, a bit insulting. And this is relevant to this debate because we're talking about something (a potential incinerator) that might actually impact on the lives of those of us who live here, whereas it clearly won't physically matter to people who don't.
[/quote]

So anyway, back to Mr Pile - obviously you cant answer for him, but do you understand my confusion?

Sure. I'm an understanding chap. Drop him a line and I'm sure he'll respond direct to clear up your confusion.

Best wishes
Grant.

[MikeHobday]

Who will you be submitting this petition to?

Grant, I'm presenting the Action Hatfield petition against the incinerator to the County County waste panel at 2 pm on Wednesday 9 September. Want to come along?
Everyone else welcome of course.
Mike

[shapps]

Grant, I'm presenting the Action Hatfield petition against the incinerator to the County County waste panel at 2 pm on Wednesday 9 September. Want to come along?
Everyone else welcome of course.
Mike

Actually been wondering whether we should join this up somehow. How many signatures do you have on yours?

[ADM]

Brookmans Park is in Welwyn Hatfield.
 
London Colney isn't.
 
Do you get it now?

[Mighty Hatfield]

Brookmans Park is in Welwyn Hatfield.
 
London Colney isn't.
 
Do you get it now?

Im not sure if you really understand the side argument here -

Grant put someones comments into question based on where they live.

The fact is that the person in question lives in a village that is equally distant from hatfield as brookmans park is, and certainly closer than Cuffley is, which is also part of welwyn hatfield, but crucially, not part of the parliamentary area.

Therefore, if you can argue that you live in hatfield simply because a boundary commission says you do, at what point does it start to ring hollow?  SG postcodes? another continent? please do tell.
 
I will say this however, none of the people deciding the incinerator issue live in Hatfield, OR have yet been to hatfield to explain to people at a public meeting why they are proceeding with their current course of action despite all of the facts pointing to it being a ridiculous and deeply unpopular idea.
 
There is a public meeting to be held on 26th August at 7.30pm for local residents to attend, give their views, and to formally discuss creating a residents association to fight the incinerator, and longterm, improve the local area. It is being held in the hall next to the hilltop pub. Im pretty sure all residents of welwyn hatfield will know how to get there. 

[Peter H]

I hope we can now agree that someone who doesnt live in the constituency or the borough should probably not try to score points about the political colour of the authority making the decision.
 
The requirement to find a site has been imposed by govt. The loss of the new hospital came from govt. the need to find more travellers sites come from govt and the need to close post offices came from the EU.
 
All of these issues are top down and decisions are being made too far from the people who have the most interest. That is how the geography of those posting becomes relevant.
 
Whether or not the County Council are making the right noises given the choice they have to make is a different question and one we might get back to.

[mickeyl]

Let us not lose sight that signing up to one of the petitions may be the best way of influencing the decision against having the incinerator on the New Barnfield site
 
http://www.savenewbarnfield.com/