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Author Topic: Fox Hunting  (Read 4892 times)

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ClearThinking

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Fox Hunting
« on: June 15, 2007, 11:14:38 AM »
Grant,
As you are no doubt aware, one of the first pledges David Cameron made when he became leader of the Conservative party was that if he became Priminister, he would work to re-legalise hunting with dogs.
Do you support your leader in this task?

-CT
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shapps

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2007, 08:26:56 PM »
Honestly, I think there are far greater matters of importance at this time, but I was concerned with the way that Blair forced the botched hunting act through without proper Parliamentary consent.  Namely that he used the Parliament Act.

The Parliament Act provides a means for the House of Commons to assert its supremacy over the House of Lords. It's been used 4 times in history, but worrying three out of those four occasions were under Mr Blair.

If Parliament wanted to vote to ban hunting (it was before my time there) then that's fair enough, but doing it via strong armed techniques which abuse Parliament tends to lead to bad law and what we have is a completely unworkable piece of legislation that, rather like the Dangerous Dogs Act, makes a mockery of the Parliamentary procedure.

Personally I would probably have voted for some kind of system of licensing hunting, though I think it was a free vote, so I would have considered all the options.

All the best
Grant.
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MikeHobday

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2007, 09:41:35 PM »
what we have is a completely unworkable piece of legislation

Tell that to the eleven people with convictions for breaking the Hunting Act.
Mike
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ClearThinking

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2007, 12:20:34 PM »
The Parliament Act provides a means for the House of Commons to assert its supremacy over the House of Lords. It's been used 4 times in history, but worrying three out of those four occasions were under Mr Blair.

Personally, I'm all for this approach - I'll accept the descisions of any elected government, whatever stance they take on national issues, because they have been voted in democratically, and have the support of the general public. I don't appreciate a largely unelected chamber full of the hereditary rich and powerful telling the politicians what to do. If we vote in a government, then we are asking those politicians to run the country, we're not after the opinions of the old-money land owners. I believe in democracy, and that's just what the Parliament Act enforces. These Lords have a vote too, and that should be the full extent of thier influence on how Westminster runs.

the Dangerous Dogs Act, makes a mockery of the Parliamentary procedure.

Knowing personally a number of people who have been involved with the use of the Dangerous Dogs act, the main cause for concern is the abuse of the laws that the act detail within the court system, by people vying for compensation (sometimes maliciosly, sometimes with obvious ignorance about the true purpose of the act, ie. to protect people from dogs trained to be vicious, or that become vicious when left unregulated by the owner). The law itself, while well meaning in its intentions, has been scrambled and misinterpreted both by the public and the courts. It is certainly due serious revision, but both the motive behind the act and the methods used to inact it are perfectly sound.

Whilst you say you would preffer some form of 'licensed hunting' you have still failed to answer my question; Do you support your leader's intentions to reinstate legalised hunting in its origional form?

-CT
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Lid

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2007, 04:12:14 PM »
Quote
Personally, I'm all for this approach - I'll accept the decisions of any elected government, whatever stance they take on national issues, because they have been voted in democratically, and have the support of the general public.

CT, our system of government is not representative of the people by any stretch of the imagination. I believe Labour achieved 35.3% of the total vote in 2005, which is hardly the support of the general public.

As you know we have a so called parliamentary democracy, where it is possible for a Government to gain a huge majority of MPs with only a tiny percentage of the votes cast. If for example 10 candidates stood in each ward, a single party could in theory win every seat with just over 10% of the total votes cast. And then of course there's those who don't vote at all!

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Rocket_fan

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2007, 05:38:35 PM »
Grant

Please answer the question posed to you by Clear Thinking, and please don't skirt round the issue like all other MP's from all parties.

Dean
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ClearThinking

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2007, 05:51:59 PM »
CT, our system of government is not representative of the people by any stretch of the imagination. I believe Labour achieved 35.3% of the total vote in 2005, which is hardly the support of the general public.

Proportional representation is of course a far more democratic option, and one I thoroughly support. However, the form of democracy we have in this country does tend to provide strong governments (whether that is a good thing is another matter) and that's one of the primary reasons it remains the method in the UK, for the present anyway.
Personally I would much rather listen to the commons, which is at least voted for, than the Lords. The Commons has far more democratic representation than the upper chamber, that's a simple fact. Would you rather the Commons did not have the power to overule the Lords?


It may not be the best form of democracy, but I'll support it over hereditary rule any day of the week.

-CT
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ClearThinking

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2007, 08:27:16 PM »
Any chance of a reply Grant? I know the current Conservative party isn't hot on having opnions, but surely in your capacity of our local MP you can assure your consituency that you don't suppor the reintroduction of a vile and bloodthirsty sport to the country that spent years campaigning against hunting.

I'll ask for a third time:
Do you support your leaders pledge to re-legalise hunting with dogs in the UK?

-CT
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shapps

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2007, 09:49:05 AM »
Yes I support the leader's pledge. Thought I'd made that clear in my initial response above. I think the law was passed with an effective abuse of Parliamentary power.

Best,
Grant.
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MikeHobday

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2007, 11:03:52 AM »
I think the law was passed with an effective abuse of Parliamentary power.

Grant,
Does this mean that you would like to repeal the War Crimes Act and the Sexual Offences (Amendment) Act, both of which were passed using the same procedure? Would you also like to repeal the Parliament Act 1949 because that was passed by the House of Commons without the consent of the House of Lords through the use of the Parliament Act 1911?
Mike
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shapps

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2007, 06:29:29 PM »
Mike, Did you know that the Parliament Act was passed in 1949 and has only ever been used four times in history, 3 of which were under Tony Blair.

Does it tell you something about the soon to be ex-PM that he felt the need to use the Parliament Act 3 times as much in his 10 years as the PMs for decades before?

Grant.
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ClearThinking

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2007, 08:45:29 PM »
Did you know that the Parliament Act was passed in 1949 and has only ever been used four times in history, 3 of which were under Tony Blair.
Does it tell you something about the soon to be ex-PM that he felt the need to use the Parliament Act 3 times

That he believed that the country should be run by democratically elected representitives rather than rich landowners?
That bills concering issues as important as war crimes and sex offences should be passed by the elected body, rather than being snubbed by the Lords?

Just ask yourself; what did Tony Blair have to gain from baninng fox hunting?
If it gained him extra support, it only proves that the British public largely supported the action to ban it. Shuld our elected politicians be forced to give in to the old-money rich-family Lords who's parlimentary power arrived in the post with the rest of thier inheritance?

All I have learnt from this debate is that you support the reintroduction of a vile and unessassrily cruel bloodsport, and that you believe unelected Lords should have the power to prevent democratic parlimentray processes. Are these personal ideals, or the official party line?

Eaglery anticipating your reply.

-CT
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Rocket_fan

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2007, 09:10:44 PM »
Awaiting your response to CT  ;D
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Broadside

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2007, 11:36:11 PM »
Muzzle the hounds, have a good fox-chase, foxy lives a bit longer before getting run over on the A414 and everyone's a winner. Sorted.
Next problem please.
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Mighty Hatfield

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Re: Fox Hunting
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2007, 09:49:17 AM »
Instead of foxes, hunt the idiots that think charging through our green lands on horseback whilst bevvied up on champers with a horn and bright red coat is 'pest control'.

Then everyones happy.

As if cameron would do that anyway, hes not that daft.
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